Guy Courtin – How B2B Industrial Business is Shifting into E-Commerce

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Guy Courtin, formerly of Infor, explains how today’s monumental shift in buyer habits makes ecommerce for B2B companies no longer an option– but a necessity.

Danny:

All right, thanks for joining on this episode! We got Guy Courtin, did I say that right?

Guy:

You did!

Danny:

Ahhh!

Guy:

You did, you get an A+ for effort today, yes, that’s a good one.

Danny:

I am actually, I don’t tell too many people this. So Gonzales, right? I’m half Mexican and I’m also half French-Canadian.

Guy:

So you’re, half of that is a good half, right?

Danny:

The Canadian part, but the French part.

Guy:

Exactly. There we go.

Danny:

So a quarter good.

Guy:

I half pronounced it well.

Danny:

So there we go.

Guy:

Yes, you did perfect.

Danny:

All right, so, but Guy, thanks so much for joining us.

Guy:

Thanks for having me.

Danny:

Guy is from Infor and he’s VP of Industry and Solutions?

Guy:

Correct.

Danny:

Did I get that right? So, tell me a little bit about who you are to the audience, those who might be familiar with you and Infor.

Guy:

Yeah, absolutely, and thanks again for having me, Danny, this is really great. For me, personally, I’ve been in the supply chain space for almost 20 years. I used to say 10 – 15 years, then I started doing the math. It’s like, no, it’s been a lot longer than that, so, I’ve been around the block a bit. And yes, covering the Industry and Solutions side, so really helping Infor with our strategy, our go-to market strategy, talking to customers and clients, so it’s a really exciting role for me. Gets me the opportunity to come speak to folks like you, but also to speak to a lot of our customers. Infor as a whole is one of the largest software companies out there right now. We’re headquartered in New York, so if anybody’s in New York City and wants to come by, we have a fabulous office, we have a great view of the Freedom Tower on one side and the Empire State Building on the other.

Danny:

Oh, that’s awesome.

Guy:

It’s amazing, but Infor as a whole, we’re really focused right now on helping out customers in a number of different industries in their digital transformation, in getting themselves ready for the challenges that we are all seeing and facing today in the acceleration of business. We have a number of verticals from retail, manufacturing, to hospitality, to government, and we’re really excited. We see a lot of opportunity out there. We truly have embraced this cloud notion and I think we’ve seen a lot of our customers coming over. But we also really look to be a trusted partner for our customers and be there with them as they go through this journey, right? I think we’ve realized it’s no longer a market where you go out and you say, “Well I need a solution X, I’ll buy it, put it in, and then I walk away.” It’s really being there with them to understand that this is not a simple path and everybody has a different path to get from point A to point B to point C and we want to be there with you to help you get there and to continue to grow with you.

Danny:

That’s awesome, man, and the key word I like, we talked about this a little bit before, maybe a little overused, but “partner”, there, right?

Guy:

Yeah, it’s overused, but I think, I feel as if it’s overused because we’re all trying to get there.

Danny:

Exactly.

Guy:

And what’s great about it in a way is, to sound cliche, it’s not a destination, it’s a journey, right? But it truly is, right? There’s no point where you say, all right, I’m a partner, I’m out!

Danny:

Yeah, right.

Guy:

Right? It’s, once you get to that level, then there’s even more work to do to keep that level. But we’re up for the task and I think we’re really embracing it and I think, for the most part, I think we’ve been successful and I think we truly do take that from Charles Phillips on down, sort of that mentality of we’re here to be a partner, and by the way, we have a wide array of really great, top-notch solutions and people that go behind it. So I think that’s the part that, for me particularly, is very exciting.

Danny:

That’s awesome, that’s great, so, I kind of want to talk about– Well, to give the audience a little bit of context, we met at MODEX 2018, here in Atlanta. We were going around to all the different interviews so you could actually see the man on the street interview that we did.

Guy:

It was great!

Danny:

It’s on the website, I’m glad you liked it! It was very good, and one of the things that, and we touched on it a little bit before we started recording on this, is that you go around MODEX, or any trade show really for that example, or the marketplace in general, and there is just so much noise, there’s so many different, so many of similar or maybe even same solutions out there. At Infor, what are you guys doing to be able to really stand apart and from a marketing and from a sales standpoint, to really differentiate?

Guy:

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. If you look at the market, people maybe 10, 15 years ago said, “Oh my goodness, it’s going to consolidate, and there’s going to be two and three massive players,” and there’s some argument. You can say there’s the SMP’s, the Oracles, the Microsofts, the Infors of the world, but then you look and there’s a number of startups that come up with medium sized companies, and the reality is, and my bosses might shoot me for saying this, but, we’re all doing something right. Every company that’s out there, whether it’s in MODEX or NRF or any of these events, someone is cutting them a check every month or every two months, whatever it may be, for some kind of product or service. So we’re all doing something that someone else is willing to give us hard earned money for.

So for us at Infor, I think how we, again, approach it, is first, I think we try to approach it with a lot of humility, which is, we don’t have all the answers. We look to work with our customers, our prospects, to get to where we think they need to be, and work with them hand-in-hand to figure that out. We have a number of solutions, but so do other players. We do believe that, in a way, our mentality of being the cloud first has helped us, right, because it really aligns with what companies need today to continue to grow and to evolve in this market. I think we also look at, well, we have a number of really world class solutions, that because we’re in the cloud, because we’ve developed them, we can also start putting things together to really, truly give you the opportunity to fit your road map onto what we have to offer. And I think, finally, the biggest one is the people. Right? And I know know that’s also a cliche–

Danny:

Never heard of that before.

Guy:

Never heard of that before, right? Yeah, it’s all about the people. But we really look at it and I’m very proud of being part of that team. You look at some of the people we have and that we’ve had for many years, and some people we keep bringing in: they also have the passion, right? And they not only have the passion to help customers, but they have a lot of industrial passion, right, so, like myself, coming from a supply chain, having really embraced that space and taking that knowledge. We have people from the retail side, from hospitality, from consumer products, from manufacturing, right? Who’ve really taken on ownership of that space and allow us to then be more intimate, if you will, with our customers, so I think it’s a combination of all that. And again, there’s no magic bullet, here.

Danny:

Right.

Guy:

There’s no secret sauce where we can say, “Well, we’ve done this and we’re better than anybody else!” It’s a lot of blocking and tackling, it’s a lot of taking chances, it’s a lot of, again, cliche, not being afraid to fail, right?

Danny:

Yeah.

Guy:

But learning from those failures and moving forward and I think it’s, um, we’ve won a lot, we’ve lost some, absolutely, you know we’re not going to win every one but I think we’ve learned from those setbacks and we’ve built on them and I think the future’s very bright. We’re deemed one of the unicorns out there and one of the big ones in New York and I think that’s a testament to what Charles and the leadership team and all the way down through folks like myself and others, who I think have really put a lot of time and effort and passion into this.

Danny:

That’s great, and that’s super exciting. One of the things, let me talk to you about, that you guys are focusing on and helping companies to really in that digital transformation, which is just huge right now. One of those areas in particular that we’re seeing a lot is really on that e-comm space. Tell me a little bit about, what are you guys seeing in that, is this something that we’re making up or is this coming down the road, specifically when we’re looking at B2B, manufacturers to industrial companies that are, you know thinking, hey, maybe there’s a different way of being able to go to market and now, because of a thing called, like, the internets.

Guy:

The interwebs.

Danny:

Yeah, the interwebs and the, yeah, right.

Guy:

Yeah, so give you a little bit more of my background too, I started out in this business in the late 90’s, right? When I went to Forest Research and as many of us remember, that was the first big boom, or the first, I’m sorry, dot com boom, right? That was the, and, and I learned a lot from that. I remember seeing companies come in and talk to us and they were getting money off of Sand Hill Road just because they put a dot com after anything.

Danny:

Right, yeah.

Guy:

And that was irrational exuberance, absolutely. But I think one thing it taught me too was this notion of, it was the first sign, because of digital, of the barriers being lowered to the difference between B2B and B2C. And we were talking about this off-camera, but it’s absolutely true. I look, mostly I talk to B2C companies, but I talk to a lot of, to some B2B, and in my past, I’ve talked to a lot of B2B companies, and you realize very quickly that at the end of the day, again to be cliched, it’s about the people.

Danny:

Right.

Guy:

The people that are in those companies, those people have a certain expectation of behavior when they’re in their personal lives. Those expectations don’t stop at the door Monday when they go to the office. So the analogy I gave is, I was a big Blackberry user. Why was I a Blackberry user? Because that was what the company mandated. It was a good machine, but that’s what the company mandated, right? The company said you will use a Blackberry and we’re going to control it, IT will control it, we’ll be able to monitor it and all this.

And all of a sudden, what happened, right? 2007, Steve Jobs announced the iPhone. “Oh my goodness, the iPhone came out!” All the IT departments are like, “Whoa, nope, nope, nope, nope!” All of a sudden, this whole notion of bring-your-own-device-to-work started creeping in. Why? Because people are saying wait a minute, I have this really cool device I use for my personal life. When I go to the office on Monday, I don’t want to switch over to this, sort of kludgy, IT-centric, 1970’s type mentality of it’s all controlled, so all of a sudden, I was like, “No, no, I want to use my personal device.” Now, how many companies, other than certain ones in law or in financials or government, say, “Yeah, bring your own device,” right?

Danny:

Yeah.

Guy:

So the reason I bring it up is that our mentality doesn’t stop on Monday, right? So if I’m used to interacting, if I’m in procurement and I’m buying pencils and paper and desks and all this… But on Sunday when my kid asks for the GI Joe, the Kung-Fu grip, I’m going on my phone. I’m going to an app whether it’s Amazon or Ali Baba or Jet.com or whatever. I’m looking for it, I have customer reviews, I see price transparency, I see options, I see like products, I see ancillary products I might want to buy with it. I see shipping options, right? I have a lower barrier of transaction, right? I can do one-click shopping, things of that nature, I go through a Paypal, things like that. If I go to the office on Monday and now I’m asked to buy paper towels and all this and now I have to go through the old green screen. Do I accept that? Of course not. So we’re starting to see this- well we’re not starting, it’s happened already, where we as consumers, when we go to the office, our expectations don’t stop and stay at home.

Danny:

Yeah. Absolutely, I love that illustration, with the iPhone and going in, yeah, that experience you’re having at home is carrying over in the business and it’s going to continue to do so. So, yeah, very interesting and exciting time where we’ve had guests in the past who are now, they’re selling 60 thousand dollar, 10 thousand dollar steel tanks.

Guy:

Exactly, online, and–

Danny:

And it’s interesting, it’s like, it’s working. Now it’s not going to work in every single case and I think there’s a little fear sometimes that people think, “Well we’re going to completely erase sales people and whole industry and all distributors are going away–“

Guy:

Yep.

Danny:

No, I mean, some cases, sure, right?

Guy:

Well, sales people and people like myself, and all this, there’s always disruption, right?

Danny:

Sure.

Guy:

Our jobs are not permanent anymore. Employment stays constant or keeps growing. Jobs keep shifting, right? But you’re absolutely right, I think there’s also the flip side where to advertise to some people who are so enamored with mobile commerce, voice commerce, getting away from a sales person knocking on your door. That, in their mind, “Well, my customer will just come in, customize their product…” This is B2B example I’m giving you, I won’t name the name, but, “…customize the product on a mobile app, hit purchase, and whether it’s a ten thousand dollar product, 50 thousand, 100 thousand, a million dollars, it doesn’t matter, ’cause I can do it on my phone.” I think what they’re missing, however, is that technology is not a replacement.

Danny:

Right.

Guy:

It is complimentary. Because as I said earlier when we were talking about Infor, it does come down to the people, right?

Danny:

Yeah.

Guy:

It comes down to, because if all this was just purely transactional, then yeah, I would just say, “Yeah I want this coffee mug.” Boom. But if it’s, “No, I want, I need coffee and I want to understand the coffee and I want someone to come in and tell me, ‘You want a medium roast versus a dark roast?’ And what other services can I provide to you?’ “

Danny:

Right.

Guy:

And you need more creamer or maybe you’re looking for a tea, what these things, that doesn’t happen just purely through an app, and I think that’s what people are missing out on. Now I’ll give you another example here, I’m here in Atlanta this weekend and I went to Kroger, and a lot of disruption obviously in the grocery space with folks like Amazon and others and even Instacart who are really coming in and changing the way we think of grocery, so people are saying, “Well, why don’t I just order all my groceries online?” And it’s like, well yeah, you could, but what was interesting at Kroger is I walked in and first, they have the bars now, the Kro Bars. You can’t have that experience online, but what was more interesting for me as I was walking around and I saw they had a freezer for Mochi ice cream. I love Mochi ice cream, but I would never think of buying it on an Instacart or online. But I’m going through the grocery store and that piqued my interest. I’m like, “Oh!” I didn’t buy any, but I was like, “Wow, this is really cool, and it wasn’t there two weeks ago, it’s there now, I’m sure it’ll be gone maybe in three weeks,” right?

Danny:

Sure, yeah.

Guy:

It’s a promotional item, it comes in and out. But it’s to show that, yes, the technology with Kroger might help me with their click list, might help me do my online shopping, but they are able to hopefully still guide people to the store because there’s still that notion of experience. So the technology doesn’t take away from the importance of the people, the experience, and all that. I think that’s what we have to– especially with the rise of ecommerce– we have to remember that it’s, that it should be, the smart one should realize it’s complimentary. Why is Amazon putting pop up stores? Why did Amazon buy Whole Foods? Why is Amazon putting book stores when Borders and all those, all the books were gone, they’re not putting book stores out there.

Danny:

Which, wasn’t Amazon originally an online book store?

Guy:

And Amazon originally was the online and CD book store but it’s to show that they recognize that at some point they have to get that personal experience. Why are companies like Bonobos or Warby Parker putting physical stores to sell their products when they were, as they say, a digitally vertical native company, right? Because they realize they need that personal relationship. Now it doesn’t mean you’re going to open 200,000 stores, but it means that there’s complimentary, there’s, it’s not one or the other.

Danny:

Right. No, it’s such a great example there, obviously particularly with Amazon, there, and yeah, Fresh Market, all the… So, for companies that are going through this digital transformation, maybe question and they’re saying, “Oh we need to figure this out, we need to start moving,” and this e-comm question comes up, are there particular, what would you tell them in terms of what to be thinking about– As far as, should we be making this transition or what are some big considerations we need to look at before making that move?

Guy:

First and foremost, I’d say if you’re still thinking about it, you’re a little bit behind.

Danny:

Okay, all right.

Guy:

You’re already behind. I think unfortunately the world of ecommerce, mobile commerce, voice commerce, now, is here to stay. Now, I would say the flip side too is let’s not get too overboard as I just mentioned, depending on certain studies, whether you look at the U.S. Government numbers or like, Forest Research, ecommerce for all of just retail is still barely in the double digits, all right? It’s between 7% and 12%. That’s still over 80% that is being done in a brick and mortar store.

Danny:

Right, yeah.

Guy:

Or a physical entity, so that’s a big, and this is trillions of dollars we’re talking about, but I would say first and foremost, like I said, if you haven’t already embarked in or had a strategy, you’re a little bit behind. I think you need to understand that this notion of ecommerce, I think we’re even beyond that. There’s a great article in the Harvard Business Review from two years ago which I quote all the time, unfortunately I didn’t write it, but it’s a great piece. It talks about the notion of ambient commerce, right? Where we as consumers can shop whenever we want, right? We all carry a mobile phone around with us, some have smart watches or other things. Think about how easy it is now with that to shop. We see something, “Oh, I like it, I’m going to maybe take a picture of it.” Maybe the app will figure out what that is or scan a barcode or something, so companies, whether it’s B2B or B2C need to understand that’s where their customers are. Now how do they get there to meet those needs, without sacrificing other parts of their business? I think if it’s the B2B side, to your point, maybe it’s not selling $10,000 tanks online, maybe it’s selling understanding of how to… which tank is better. Do I need the 10,000 gallon capacity tank or the 15,000?

Danny:

Right.

Guy:

What’s my business? Like, am I in petrochemical, what have you?

Danny:

Right, right.

Guy:

Maybe it’s integrating some of that, maybe it’s integrating some of, again, helpful process, whether it’s through chat or your mobile phone, or things like that to help you understand the processes of getting from point A to point B. It also has to be a mentality of how to reduce the friction to get to that transaction, right?

Danny:

Yeah.

Guy:

Is it through easier payment through my mobile phone? Is it through whatever means there is? And that’s up to each company to figure out what the balance is, you know. We’re seeing, or I’ve seen some things where, in some countries where mobile commerce or credit cards aren’t even there yet– Is there a way-? like Overstock.com I believe is doing this to use things like Blockchain to allow transactions to happen online where they can secure the financials and things like that, so that’s thinking, “Hey, this is beyond just ecommerce. How do I ensure or allow potential customers to shop with me in whatever means they want?” right?

And I think that’s what this notion of ambient commerce is, it’s no longer just am I in the store, or on my phone, or my laptop, my tablet, my kiosk, my smart watch, my google glass, like whoever still has it. It’s beyond that. But it’s really, “Hey, if Danny wants to buy something this way, I need to make sure I can let you buy it that way, or at least get a path to that conversion.” So I think all these companies need to think about that. What is the path I need to make to allow my consumer to get to the conversion? Because it’s going to be different for everybody, right? Some, it’s one click away and, “I want that toilet paper to come every two weeks,” right? Some others it’s “No, no, no, I need to understand the processes, I need to see how things work. I need to talk to customer service.” It really runs the gamut but at the end it’s all, “How do I reduce friction to the path of conversion?”

Danny:

Such a great question and start asking with are we where our customers are looking? And if we’re not, how do we get there?

Guy:

And the scary part for B2B or B2C is guess what? Your customer is always shifting, right?

Danny:

Yeah!

Guy:

And that’s why I tell people when I speak is, at the end of the day, the people that have screwed this up, is us. Us as consumers.

Danny:

Yeah.

Guy:

Right? We’ve screwed up for ourselves as professionals.

Danny:

“Shiny squirrel, oh hey!”

Guy:

Yeah, exactly, we’re like, “Oh, hey! I can now talk to Alexa and it will buy something. Awesome. Do it.” What’s next? I don’t know. We’ll look at things like your car. Your car’s become more connected. When is your car going to be able to start, You can just talk to your car and it’ll order stuff ahead, right? And then it’ll reroute you to the best place, right? Things like that. We’re also seeing v-commerce, right? Talking to your Alexa or your smartphone and ordering things. We’re seeing social buying, right? You go on Instagram or Facebook and all this, but if you think about it, that’s all you really, someone made this analogy, it’s in the first inning, I would say it’s batting practice, we’re not even in the game yet, right? We’re just starting to scratch the surface of, hey, I can, because to me, when something pops up on Instagram that says buy it like how different is that from a pop-up ad or a banner ad? It’s not.

Danny:

Right. Yeah.

Guy:

What’s the next step? Is the next step like, it’s not as evident, but there’s a picture of something and a picture of Danny’s, a picture of you at the beach and I see someone in the background with a cool pair of swim trunks. Is there a way I can say hey, I like those, and all of a sudden it goes right into a transactional mode, right? I don’t know. But I think it’s, we as consumers again are constantly like you said, squirrel!

Danny:

Yeah, yeah.

Guy:

Right? And because we have so many choices, and because in a way we’re bombarded by them, sometimes it’s hard for brands, whether it’s B2C, B2B, to anticipate where that conversion point’s going to be.

Danny:

Right, yeah.

Guy:

That’s the hard part, that’s the fun part.

Danny:

You’re absolutely right, 100%. Listen, Guy, this has been absolutely fantastic. We’ve covered a lot of topics. We could probably go for another four hours.

Guy:

We could, we could, I think there’d be a lot of editing to be done after that.

Danny:

Yeah! Well this is fantastic, so if anybody would like to reach you and ask a questions, what’s the best way of getting–

Guy:

Uh, the best way is, obviously, search for me on any of the social sites: LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter. My twitter handle is @gcourtin. I’m on there a whole lot.

Danny:

Okay.

Guy:

So by all means, reach out to me, but otherwise, just go to the Infor site as well and you can probably somehow find me in there. It’s in there. But yeah, always happy to talk to people. This is obviously a topic which I think is really interesting and, like I said, I think we’re only starting to scratch the surface and I think it’s, I think people need to start and people need to start thinking about it, and if they haven’t already, they’re already, they’re still behind, but that doesn’t mean you can’t catch up.

Danny:

Right.

Guy:

One last thing from me is the scary part, or the beauty of what we’re at today with digital is just because you’re ahead doesn’t mean you’re going to stay there and just because you’re behind doesn’t mean you can’t leapfrog someone. That’s the beauty of it and that’s the scary part of it and I think that’s why people need to really constantly be thinking and evolving with this.

Danny:

Those are great parting words, that’s awesome. Thanks so much!

Guy:

Hey, appreciate it!

Danny:

All right! Okay, all right, well that was another fantastic episode. Thanks so much to our guest Guy who came on and just dropped some major truth bombs on us. It was absolutely awesome. A lot of key things there. A lot of key takeaways for me. I think really at the end there, solidified a lot is that hey, look, if, maybe you are late to the game, and you know what, that’s cool, that’s fine. Just recognize that you are and you can totally leapfrog somebody. If you’re at the top of your game right now, recognize, realize that you could be the one who’s leapfrogged. You need to constantly innovate and keep thinking forward. This whole digital transformation, the whole ecommerce piece, and really at the end of the day still remembering that we are selling to other people, even though it may be B2B, you are selling to another person.

So, absolutely some awesome takeaways. If you have any questions for Guy you know how you can reach out to him. It looks like Twitter is his thing, so as always, thanks for watching or listening, if you’re listening on iTunes, we’d love a review! If you are watching on our website, please sign up so you can get this sent to you every single week. We’d loved it if you could share it on social media, we love the love! And as always, I’m Danny Gonzales, and this is IndustrialSage. Thanks for watching.

 

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